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New Robot Heroes toys, TFA Dirge and Samurai Prowl, and Legends Universe Wheelie & ROTF Jetfire

Posted by:
Sabrblade at 2008-12-19 3:34 pm
TFW2005 has the first images of the new Robot Heroes toys: Optimus Primal vs. Jetstorm (both from Beast Machines) and Victory Saber vs. Dessaras (both from Transformers Victory). Note the change in Deszaras' English name; his BotCon toy was named "Deathsaurus", and now we have this new name "Dessaras".

Also, they have discovered what the bio is for Activators Dirge:

Greedy, grasping, and never satisfied, DIRGE always hungers for more. More power. More fuel. More altitude. Whatever it is, DIRGE wants all of it. He's another clone of STARSCREAM who reveals the worst aspect of that fighter ace's ambition-- the inability to ever be content with what he has.

Sounds to me like he's the "Glutton Starscream clone".

Plus, ACToys has a detailed gallery showing the differences between the Samurai Prowl figure and the original Prowl from Wave 1 of Animated (aside from the additional armor, of course). See the translated version of the page here (mind all the 'Engrish' errors).

Finally, TF08 has new images of the upcoming Legends class Universe Wheelie and ROTF Jetfire. The initial pictures show Jetfire mistransformed in vehicle mode, but later pictures have this fixed. Also notice that Wheelie is shown having his slingshot come with him, which should be interesting.

Comments
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-19 19:22:36
Oh what the hell Hasbro!? First Leo Prime and now Deathsaurus? Why do they keep doing this to us? You know, if you asked me yesterday the one character who needed the American name change from the Japanese more than any, I'd have told you it was Big Convoy because we already had Deathsaurus, but now I'm going to have to revoke my answer.

Seriously, why do they keep giving us American names, and then take them away? It doesn't make sense. It's just like how the Japanese continutities keep changing to match ours. It's illogical. We have different cultures, it makes sense that our shows and names would be different!

In light of this, I now know what I am going to ask Hasbro the next time we get the chance to ask questions.

I also find it quite funny that 10 years after the fact, we get new Beast Wars figures that don't look a thing like the show, but we finally have some show accurate Beast Machine figures. Maybe we'll finally get a Botanica figure!

Seriously, though, Lio Convoy, Shadow Panther, and Deszaras have all had their names retconned within the last year... what the hell?...
Black Starscream said,  - 2008-12-19 20:11:36
I have to say, I would've been happier if they had at least written it as Deszaras but then again maybe they were just trying to make it sound as close to the Japanese as possible without making it sound like deathsaurus. Actually this might be the first Robot Heroes set I buy because its huge progress for hasbro. Even the boxart is good looking and it has that anime look (sort of like chibbi robots). If we're lucky we'll get the RM version of Victory saber or maybe a new Classics Universe fig. Hasbro is at least showing their potential after soon to be 25 years.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-19 20:23:31
What's interesting is that Victory actually featured chibi-TFs; during the commercial bumpers. This Dessaras actually kinda looks a lot like how he looked in the bumper.

TPR, I think you're overreacting a bit. So his name is a bit different. Big deal. Look at the Robot Heroes toys of Shrapnel, Bombshell, and Slag. They all got renamed "Insecticon", "Hardshell", and "Snarl". Does that make them any different that who they are? No, it doesn't. Why? because they've already appeared in previous fiction as "Shrapnel", "Bombshell", and "Slag". As for Dezsaras, he's already appeared in U.S. fiction as "Deathsaurus", so what's to worry about? The fiction generally takes precedence over the toys.

And what's this fuss about Shadow Panther?
TPR on Girlfriend's CPU said,  - 2008-12-19 23:04:58
Actually it is different and for one reason alone: these are the Japanese characters, not the American ones. We know the American ones don't matter because Hasbro lost the copyrights, they didn't just randomly change them. The fiction is based after the figures. Because the fiction that exists is based after the original figures, they will retain those identities, even Jazz, Bluestreak, and Hot Rod. But for some reason, when it comes to bringing Japanese characters into American continuity, apparently Hasbro has no clue what they're doing.

The issue with Shadow Panther is the same as Leo Prime, it's just not as apparent. The Sourcebook calls him Shadow Panther despite that he was released as Tripredacus Agent in America (I know he was initially supposed to be called Shadow Panther and Ravage, but he was ultimately called Tripredacus Agent). Now there's the same issue that exists with Leo Prime/Lio Convoy, Gigatron/Overlord, and others. We have two identities and one character. And the dispute begins, what takes precedence? The fiction or the figures? There are a lot of people who say the fiction, but there are also a lot of people who say the figures. And that's these issues arise; when the fiction and the figures don't agree, neither can the Transfans.
Black Starscream said,  - 2008-12-20 00:04:16
Technically Tripredicus Agent is more of a title. Shadow Panther was the actual name of the character, and for the Transmetal versions, he was Ravage in both Japan and US. Leo Prime/Lio Convoy is in order to keep consistant with the US having Primes and Japan to have Convoys. It would like if one day Takara Tomy decided to trademark Optimus Prime in Japan as Optimus Convoy, or as a better example, the way Rodimus Prime is always Rodimus Prime in Japan. Same principle in Hasbro's book. I've never heard of Gigatron/Overlord though. When did that one come about?
TPR on Girlfriend's CPU said,  - 2008-12-20 00:28:57
There's more to the Shadow Panther thing though. The Transmetal 2 figure's biography makes direct references to the Shadow Panther figure's bio to further connect the two. They are supposed to be the same character now in the American continuity, but there are issues now due to the comics.

Likewise, the Leo Prime figure was released under the Classics line back when Hasbro had said that the characters in the line were intended to be their original counterparts. Well who was Leo Prime? Paint scheme, function, beast mode; everything pointed to Lio Convoy. Then the comics came out and he and Big Convoy appeared back under their Japanese names. So the consistency is eliminated.

Overlord is the Godmaster/Powermaster leader of the Decepticons in the Japanese series Masterforce. A "Heroes of Cybertron" figure of him was released in America under the name Gigatron. In Europe, however, the original Masterforce figure was released under his Japanese name. So the identity crisis exists once again.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-20 00:49:56
Actually, now that I remeber, it's a little different with Shadow Panther. Originally, before he was brought over and given a new name & bio, he was his own character that had no evidence to be connected to Ravage. Then, when his toy was brought over, he was repurposed as Ravage under the name "Tripredacus Agent". So, his toy actually can represent two different characters: the original Shadow Panther toy, and Ravage pre-Transmetal.

It's sort of like how the Wal-Mart Transmetal Rattrap toy can represent either Rattrap or a Transmetal version of Packrat. Or how Rav's blue redeco can be him or Chro.

As for the relation between Overlord and Gigatron, they are usually regarded in the same kind of relation as Hosehead and Cab are. Two bots who share the same toy... unless CMF gets dubbed correctly and Overlord is named Gigatron (which actually would make sense since his Godmaster partners are named Giga and Mega, but Giga does all the talking as Overlord). BTW, Overlord was not the Decepticon leader, he was the second-in-command.
Sidewinder said,  - 2008-12-20 06:35:52
I'm just happy to see a Wheelie figure that doesn't look totally stupid. No, I am not a Wheelie fan, but I can appreciate the figure sculpt.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-20 18:50:03
But that just furthers my point, Sabr, we have two identities for one figure; one character. Nontransmetal's bio's first line is: "Outer appearance looks like a Maximal but in fact he is a Predacon soldier."
Transmetal 2's reads: "His outer appearance resembles that of a Maximal, but within beats the fuel pump of a devious espionage agent!"
The Transmetal 2's bio was made to tie the three forms together: Shadow Panther, Metals Jaguar, and Tripredacus Agent. They are supposed to be the same Ravage in American continuity, but for some reason, Furman and Yee went a little above and beyond and tore the continuity in half to double their roster. Now, Furman never acknowledges the name changes, otherwise in the Dreamwave comics we'd have had Rodimus and Meister running around, but to not acknowledge the American names of previously Japanese exclusive characters in the Beast Wars is a little ridiculous.

As far as Gigatron and Overlord go, I've only ever seen him get called Overlord that's it. As far as I can tell, most people discard the Gigatron mantle like it's not there.

All I know is that I've decided that I am strictly refering to characters now by the American mold's name. If the mold hasn't received an official release in the states but has received an homage or something, I'm going to take that. So Lio Convoy is now Leo Prime, Dia Atlas is King Atlas, Deszaras is Deathsaurus, etc, etc. That's just how my stance is going to be on the matter from now on, even more than before. There are some exceptions, like Dirgegun isn't going to be Waspinator, but in most of those cases, the figure had multiple releases under different names, so I'll default to the next one.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-20 19:02:52
Well, oyu could always buy two of the same figure and pretend each one is a different guy. Besides, it's not like Ravage ever even appeared in any fiction in Shadow Panther's body. As far as we know, that figure is a toy-only character.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-20 19:42:14
Yeah, but the toys give the fictoin characters. The fiction is based after the toyline. The problem is, the fiction keeps ignoring the figures now, and we are ending up with identity crises. I just don't understand why it keeps happening considering the fact that if there had never been toys, there'd have never been fiction.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-20 20:14:01
It keeps happening becasue there are just some toys that the writers just simply don't want to use in the fiction.

But there's one thing I still don't know. When was Shadow Panther's toy repurposed as Ravage? Either the exact date or year or portion of the Beast Wars toyline.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-20 20:38:49
It was done because the figure was released through the Hasbro online shop thing and then furthermore when the TM2 figure was released with a bio that tied them together. I don't know when Shadow Panther was released on the online shop, but TM2 was released in 2000, I think.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-20 21:00:27
If it was in 2000, then it seems like it was pointless to release him as Ravage AFTER Ravage has already appeared as Transmetal in the show, and after the Metals Jaguar toy was released in Japan. Why bother releasing a toy just to repurpose it as a different character that has previously appeared in a more upgraded form than the toy represents?

It would've made more sense if Shadow had either never been repurposed Ravage in the first place, or if he had been repurposed as Ravage during season one of Beast Wars (1996-97). Since the story was already far enough to where Ravage wouldn't need to have been in a pre-Transmetal form.

It would seem that there was only one reason that Hasbro did such a weird move in releasing him as Ravage at such a late point: "To Sell Toys".
Black Starscream said,  - 2008-12-20 21:06:02
I wanna bring up a slightly different question for Ravage. When was Shadow Panther ever used in fiction as a separate character? I mean, the American title gives him a slightly more mysterious identity, but why can't he just be an Agent known as Shadow Panther, who is actually the ex-decepticon ravage? Its kind of like the way Hasbro recolored Cybertron Jetfire, and released as Sky Shadow, only in reverse order. Gigatron seems like a hastry renaming of Overlord. Deathsaurus was only given because numerous Americans interpreted the Japanese name Dezsaras to be Deathsaurus. King Atlas is never really established as Dai Atlas, and apparently was established to be a separate character. The only two series to have figures that are most likely two different characters are Masterforce (with the powermasters that are not Overlord) and Beast Wars II. Some characters in Masterforce could still be the same as their american counterparts, like Gilmer, Daurus, and Blood, as well as King Poseidon, as this could be the same as the descrepencies between US Headmasters era figures and Japanese Headmasters characters, who are the same personas with entirely different protrayals.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-21 10:19:07
The reason he was released as Tripredacus Agent and not as Ravage is because Hasbro didn't own the copyright. The reason he appeared in the show as Ravage is because they don't actually need the copyright in the show. That's why now Jazz runs around being called "Jazz" and not "Autobot Jazz" all the time. Especially considering that he was a character they owned the rights to back in the '80s. I'm fairly certain because they owned the rights back then as well, they can put him in the show as his '80s counterpart.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-21 10:19:14
And Black Starscream, it wasn't done in fiction. It was done through the characters' biographies and names. Hasbro tried to release him as "Ravage" but didn't have the rights. They then released the character under the name "Tripredacus Agent" to connect him to the Ravage in Beast Wars. They then later released the Transmetal 2 version with a bio that connected the 3 versions even further.
The problem with Gigatron and Deathsaurus is that both cases have had American releases of figures and have appeared in comics under those names. Yes, even Gigatron has appeared in the comics. Therefore, those are the American names, but people in their "America Bad; Japan Good" logic refuse to accept these names. It's like the people who refuse to watch english dubs of shows because they think the Japanese version is superior. That's crap. I heard the other day someone complaining about the English verisons of Dragonball Z beging terrible compared to the Japanese. I'm sorry, the fact that the main characters as adults are all running around with the girl voice actresses who played them as kids is a major reason to why the english versions are better. But that's how all anime in Japan is, and the over-obsessive fans can't accept the nescessary changes. King Atlas was supposed to be connected to Dai Atlas, but the 2003 Universe line and the comics died before the connection could be made. So they were supposed to be established as the same character, they just didn't get to that point.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-21 14:00:34
I know about the name deal. I'm saying that Shadow either should've been repurposed as the Ravage character earlier, or not at all.

And was Gigatron actually named in the comics he appeared in? I haven't read them, so I don't know.

And, about the DBZ thing, they were probably referring to its first dub, which was heavily edited, and omitted death by saying that people who died were "sent to another dimension". This later died out as that dub continued. Later, as second dub was released that was a LOT closer to the Japanese version and was MUCH less edited. So, in a way, the Japanese version is better than the first dub veriosn, but no better than the second dub version.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-21 14:32:58
See, that's the thing though, Sabr, he was renamed as the Tripredacus Agent character when he was released on the site. That was the earliest he could have been renamed. And now, here we are, eight years later, retconning the event. How much earlier could you have wanted it? I mean, what difference did the 3 or 4 years of the Beast Wars make? Either way, he was Ravage and now is being called different.

Hmm... actually, now that you mention it I'm not entirely sure. I know that Gigatron appears in the Megatron Origin book, but he may just be a background face. I also don't own the old Dreamwave More than Meets the Eye profile book, so I don't know what he was called or even if he was in it... hmm... mystery... By some miracle, the TF Wiki calls his appearance in the Megatron Origin comic Gigatron, but lord only knows.

Eitherway, however, Deathsaurus has appeared twice under that name, and once unnamed, along with King Atlas, in the Dreamwave comics.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-21 15:58:36
Well, since you say that the Universe comic ended before a connection between Dai & King Atlas could be made, has it ever been said anywhere that they are meant to be the same guy? Cuz, everywhere I look says he's meant to be a homage and maybe more, but I can't find where it outright states that they're the same guy.

Oh, and I think I forgot to mention this, but TFA Dai Atlas may be a ninja like Prowl and Jazz, but much bigger than them.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-21 18:25:13
Well, that's what I said before, I am considering homages, like Leo Prime and King Atlas, as the intended characters. In the last paragraph here: http://www.unicron.com/news_item/1608/#comment9
Byrer prime said,  - 2008-12-22 06:10:12
Beast Wars: The Gathering #1 came out at about the same time as the Leo Prime toy. The comic showed him, but didn't name him. I emailed IDW because I was writing the character page for Razorbeast. They seemed unaware of the toy's name or release. They said that they were calling him Lio Convoy, and subsequently, called him that in a later issue.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-22 06:13:41
Yeah, but the fact that he was unnamed means that they could have named him in a later issue. Especially considering I'm pretty sure he didn't appear again until The Ascending #1, long after the name had been released.

Also, I looked into it a little more, and I'm pretty sure he was called Gigatron in the More than Meets the Eye profile books.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-22 09:53:26
Well, the only ones from Masterforce that I could see using their English counterparts' names are the Decepticon Pretenders, the Seacons, maybe Overlord (since his Godmasters are Giga and Mega, but Giga does all the talking), Godbomber, the Decepticon Sparkdash, and BlackZarak (as Dark Scorponok).

I don't see Sixknight going by "Quickswitch" because he's such an awesome a character and awesome characters usually have cool names. And I think that "Sixknight" sounds cooler than "Quickswitch". But that's just my opinion.

And some characters like Grand Maximus and Black Rorichi don't have English counterparts.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-22 10:43:05
And Metalhawk and Browning. I'm pretty much sure that everyone could come away in a dub under their American given names. I think there's a certain sadistic/comedic pleasure that comes out of calling Minerva "Muzzle" when she's not linked to her Transector.

Who is Black Rorichi? I'm only up to about episode 11 in the Masterforce subs, Mega, Giga, and Jinrai have all only just been introduced, so I'm not too far along yet.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-22 12:32:45
He's the golden redeco of Fasttrack that comes with the BlackZarak toy. He wasn't named in the show. He appears much later as the leader of the Guardminders (hundreds of drones of Fasttrack).

And the characters of Shûta, Minerva, Ranger, Hydra, and Buster can't use their English counterparts' names because Siren, Nightbeat, Joyride, Darkwing, and Dreadwind were released alongside them in the Masterforce toyline (as mail-away exclusives, but still in the same toyline).

But I have been trying to think of some names for these that would be based of the U.S. ones. Like, for Minvera, as a human she can keep her name "Minerva", but when bonded to her transtector, instead of Nightbeat, how about "Heartbeat"? After she is an ambulance (sort of).
Jumpercliff said,  - 2008-12-22 15:33:59
I think Dirge might be (since it is the holiday season) the "Scrooge" of the clones.
Black Starscream said,  - 2008-12-22 23:16:51
Heartbeat would be a good name for her. I finished masterforce when summer started but I never saw the guardminders. Grand Maximus has no American counterpart only because he was never released here. If rorichi comes with Black Zarack I don't see why he couldn't just be fastrack. Basically I think the Headmaster Jrs and Godmasters would by default be separate characters aside from Overlord, simply due to his lack of an extensively used counterpart.
On a side not I came up with by far the best example of a character deviating between show, us comics, and Bio/name: Armada Thundercracker! He's Starscream in the show and in Japan while being Thundercracker in the US packaging, and both former online bio and comic series.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-23 00:17:30
The Guardminders were all those Fasttracks that were in space working on that giant weapon that BlackZarak would've fired on Earth. Black Rorichi was the yellow one who was their leader, though he was unnamed like all the other Guandminders. It's funny when you think about it: Fasttrack is the name of all the BLACK Guardminders and Black Rorichi is the name of the YELLOW Guardminder leader.

Not only is that the case for Armada Thundercracker, but also for the Armada Mini-Cons Clench and Zapmaster, Energon Roadblock (but kept his new name in the toon), Energon Beachcomber, Energon Overcast, and Energon Ladnquake.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-23 16:27:48
The whole thing there, Sabr, about not being able to use the American names for Shûta, Minerva, Ranger, Hydra, and Buster, are you saying that it's because the American figures were released in Japan as mail-in give aways? Because, if that's the case, it doesn't change anything for me. They would then be Quig/Siren, Muzzle/Nightbeat, Hotwire/Joyride, Throttle/Darkwing, and Hi-Test/Dreadwind.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-23 18:59:50
But that's just it. Why would you call an ambulance "Nightbeat"?

I'm saying that, because they were released in Japan as part of the same toyline as the others, they're already they're own characters. It doesn't matter that they were mail-aways. Look at Lander, he was also a mail-away figure, yet he's part of Masterforce too.

And several others have been mail-aways too: Lander (as stated above), Ratchet, Warpath, Cosmos, Dirge, the Headmaster Warriors, the Insecticons (reissued in 1988), Squawkbox, and Repugnus. Their status as mail-aways do not denounce their existance.

And so what if some of these didn't show up in the cartoon. As Grand Maximus and BlackZarak revealed, there were other TF characters that didn't appear in the cartoon becuase they were busy fighting the space-bound war, between the Autobots on Athenia and the Decepticons on Chaar. I like to think that Siren, Nightbeat, Joyride, Dreadwind, Darkwing, and Squawkbox were among these fighting in space off screen.

Besides, using the U.S. names for erverybody would be almost as bad as the RTM 1 Dub of Masterforce. They used every U.S. name and some, and look how bad it was.

Besides, it's blatantly obvious that Ginrai isn't an Optimus Prime, so why call him that? They never even notice his identical appearance to Prime.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-23 20:44:36
The use of the English names has nothing to do with how bad that dub is and you know it. I'm fairly certain that every dub to ever come out of the Philpines has been awful. Dragonball Z, Yu Yu Hakusho, Transformers, they've all been ruined in some way, shape, or form in their Philipino dubs.

The thing that makes the dub bad is the acting and the poor translation, not the names... well, some names are pretty aweful. Like Robot Train, Philip and Billy, but other than that, you can't blame them for trying. I'd say the biggest downfall of the Masterforce dub namewise is the Headmasters and Powermasters all being called by their robot names at all times. If they had resorted to their Nebulan partner names, thing's'd been a lot better. But other than that, it's seriously the terrible, TERRIBLE acting.

And I'm fairly certain that the Transector that Hi-Q (Ginrai) uses was an intended new body for Optimus Prime (G1 Convoy). It even says it on the TF Wikia, first sentence:
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Ginrai#Super-God_Masterforce_cartoon
I'd say that considered, he is the new Optimus Prime. So, he's not THE Optimus Prime, he's the NEXT Optimus Prime. Optimus Prime Jr. if you will. Not that I'd ever call him that, but that's a way to think of it. He even becomes a great leader and then dies in true Optimus Prime fashion. So, yeah, it's blatantly obvious that he is an Optimus Prime.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-23 21:31:28
The transtector as Prime, yes. The character the Transtector turned out to be, no.

In the series itself, Ginrai is never compared to Convoy. In fact, Convoy is never mentioned at all in the series. The retcon that Ginrai's transtector was meant for Prime was made after the series ended. It was briefly mentioned in a clip episode that was made to answer some unsolved concepts in the show. But the show itself never acknowledges a connection between Ginrai and Prime. Not even the civilian humans notice that Ginrai looks like Prime. They see him as just another giant robot.

But one thing I noticed is that, when the God Ginrai toy was rereleased as PM Optimus Prime w/ Apex Armor in the Commemorative Series, Ginrai's name was used instead of Hi-Q's. If Hasbro decides to reissue some more 1988 toys like this, they might have the Engish names for the robot, and the japanese names for the headmaster/powermaster partners.

Also, some of the nebulan names wouldn't work for the humans. Sure, they could use the nicknames concept, but wouldn't that make the viewers wonder why EVERYONE has a nickname? They could just give them new names.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-23 22:10:44
I don't really think the viewers would worry too much about the names. Within the last ten years we've had Koji, Rad, Kicker, Bud, and Sari. Not to mention, the first kid's name was Spike and his father was Sparkplug. You go into the comics and the other kid's name was Buster. Human names are meant to be a little off the wall in TF.

Regardless of if the connection between the Transtector and Prime came afterwards doesn't change the fact that they are related. Just because it wasn't until Robot Masters that it was confirmed that in BW2 Gaia and Earth are the same place doesn't change the fact that they are. My point is in this case the robot is Optimus Prime. You can argue that the human linked to the robot is not Optimus Prime, and you're right, that's Hi-Q (Ginrai), but the robot is Optimus Prime.

And as far as the humans not noticing the similarities, that's a moot point really. Masterforce was initially pulling that whole new continuity thing and then changed its mind early on. Once the Pretenders all show up in episode one, it's like no one on Earth has ever even heard of Transformers. Hence why Quig (Shuta) is so dumb struck when Metalhawk is explaining the whole thing. Ultimately, let's face it, Masterforce is great, but it is to the G1 Continuity what TF:Cybertron is to the Unicron Trilogy. It's in continuity but its got a healthy dose of continuity errors along with it.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-23 23:46:46
Well, the robot may be Prime, but the spark isn't.

Since we really don't know how long after Headmasters Masterforce takes place, Shûta may not have known about the Autobots because he may have been too young to know about them when they were last on Earth. He's 13 years old by the time Masterforce takes place.

And Masterforce at least tried to show that it took place post-Headmasters with some things like Diver and Lander showing Ginrai old newspaper clippings of Decepticon attacks from the past, and the fact that Grand is Fortress Maximus' younger bro. Not mention the brief appearances of Chromedome and Fortress. And the (unstated) fact that BlackZarak is a brainwashed Scorponok. One episode even had a random civilian yell out "It's the Cybertrons!" Only two episodes really messed up with the continuity.

And the names "Koji" and "Bud" are real names, "Kicker" and "Rad" were nicknames (real names were Chad and Bradley), and "Spike" and "Buster" were not-too-uncommon real names back then. I think the only names that have no explanation for being odd are "Sparkplug" and "Sari".
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-24 00:06:01
I'm pretty sure for a long time, it didn't have a spark...

Regardless of if the names are nicknames, real names, or otherwise, they are still uncommon names by real life standards. Heck, if my real name were used as a main character's (and, fun fact, it is one of the friend characters' names in the old G1 comics), it would be right up there on that list, too. The point is, given the aforementioned list, I doubt people would be saying "why's that kid's name 'Lug'?" or "'Muzzle'?" etc. I'm pretty sure we Transfans have come to accept that humans just have weird names in the TF Universes. Especially Daniel; what was that all about? Talk about coming out of left field!

And even if Quig was only 13, you mean to tell me there would be nothing in a history book or two about a Giant Robot Civil War taking place on earth? That seems a little unlikely.

And, yeah, Masterforce gave it an honest to goodness try with the continuity thing. Heck of a lot better than Cybertron's cameos of Rad, Carlos, Alexis, and Kicker, that's for sure. But it doesn't change the fact that it still had it's hiccups because of its weary start.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-24 00:45:02
There's also the matter of their races and job. Most of the Nebulan names are English based and/or don't match with their race or jobs. Why would they name a Japanese boy "Quig", a half-French, half-japanese girl "Muzzle", a Southeast Asian island native boy "Lug", a Chinese boy "Lokos" (sounds like the Spanish word "loco"), two Germans "Throttle and Hi-Test", a (Canadian) park ranger "Hotwire", and a (British) race champion "Lube" (sounds more like a pit crew member)?

There's also the matter of Clouder. He has two armored forms that were given two different English names: Knok and Skar. Both of which really do not fit him well.

And about the spark thing with Ginrai, before I answer it, how far are you in the series?
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-24 09:45:12
I'm only around episode 11. I haven't had a lot of time to really sit down and watch.

The race thing has nothing to do with their names. It would just be direct translation. I personally never understood why if Koji was a japanese originated kid, why we didn't just keep his Japanese name. Instead, we changed it to a different Japanese name. I also think the difference in this case is that the kids were never the Transformers themselves (with the exception of Coby, whose name was written on his Scrapmetal). That said, I think that's why this case would be different and the kids' names should be changed to their Nubulan counterpart names.

In the case of Doubledealer, Knok could be his first name, Skar could be his last name. See? Problem solved!
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-24 11:00:45
"Knok Skar"? I kinda pictured him more like a "Klaus" or something. "Clouder", "Cloud", "Klaus", get it?

Now, here's something we've overlooked. What about the Autobot Pretender who have human identities and lives (sans Grand)? We know that Metalhawk uses the alias "Hawk" for his human identity, so what could Lander/Landmine, Diver/Waverider, and Phoenix/Cloudburst use for their aliases since their U.S. toys didn't come with secondary names like Metalhawk's did. I have soem ideas, but I wanna hear yours first.

Episode 11, huh? You're not even to the good parts yet. The two episode I mentioned that mess up its continuity with G1 are 14 and 23 (while 23 also does something to further connect it with The Headmasters at the same time). Well, now that it's December, around Christmastime, would you thus have more time to watch it? When I first saw, I was so fascinated by it, I couldn't stp wathcing it. I think I finished it all within two school weeks.

I can't say anything more about that spark stuff with Ginrai.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-24 11:26:38
Yeah, now that we're on vacation, I'll definitely be getting back to it. The end of the semester is always a little hectic, so I had to put it on hold.

The Autobot Pretenders I'm a little up in the air. I personally think that Hawk could be tied to Hawk from GI Joe. There are some holes in the theory, but I think it would be an interesting connection. Otherwise, I kinda just sit on the whole "humans have awkward names" bit and say that if they had their robot names as their human names, it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary as far as Transformers was concerned.

As far Doubledealer is concerned, it's a tough call. I just figure he could probably introduce himself and then the 'cons would call him by his last name Skar, and the 'bots would call him by his first name Knok. It's just a personality/interpretation thing, I guess.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-24 12:26:02
Well, if they wanted to make a connection between Hawk and General Hawk, they could probably have Hawk, when revealing his identity to Shûta in episode 1, say that he based his human name on a past Earth general, and as pun, he say that this general was "a real American hero". XD Other than that, I know they can't be the same guy, their backstories are too different.

As for the other Pretenders, if the English names were to be used, I could see Landmine using the human alias "Landon". Waverider could be named "Wayne" or "Ryder", or both "Wayne Ryder". Cloudburst I stuck on. I'm thinking that, if they take the "burst" part of his name, he could go by "Burton" or something. Or "Logan"! He does look a LOT like Wolverine.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-24 12:46:30
Yeah, the Wolverine similarity is a incredible. If you look at it that way, Marvel and TF had a connection back in the day, maybe Hawk is Gen. Hawk and Cloudburst is actually Wolverine, lol.

Obviously not.

Anyway, I always thought of it this way: Hawk explains that they took human form because they were impressed by the humans' courage. So they fight the 'cons like robots, but once they are locked away, they just chill out in their human forms. Then Hawk enlists to aide the American miliatary, but always kept his true identiy a secret, and bingo-bango-bongo, we have a fully developed back story.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-24 13:00:08
Do Hawk and Gen. Hawk look alike? I really don't know. I need to see what Gen. Hawk looks like with out his helmet on. I've seen him in GI Joe Sigma 6, but there he doesn't look like Hawk.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-24 14:40:27
I don't think they do, but I kinda think that's a moot point. Considering that Masterforce takes place so far in the future, it would make sense if he changed his appearance as to not attract attention. Rather than just never aging, he can adopt a new appearance and not have to be pestered in life.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-24 15:30:29
Yeah, Masterforce never dealt with their ageless matter. All that was said was that they assumed the form of humans in the Neolithic Era and lived amongst them for years.

But one thing I've tried to figure out is just how far after The Headmasters Masterforce takes place. In Japan, G1 season 3 is set in 2010, The Headmasters is set in 2011, and Victory is set in 2025. So, that mean that it takes place somewhere within that 14-year time period. This would be easier to figure out if they hadn't bumped 2006 to 2010. Then The Headmasters would be set in 2007 and would give an 18-year time period. Either way, it would have to be long enough for most of the world to forget about the TFs. Would ten years be long enough?
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-24 15:53:12
I think if giant robots came and fought a civil war on our planet, no one would forget until all of the people from that time period were dead. Seeing as it's only about a 30 year period from the beginning of G1 to Masterforce, I don't think that's nearly enough time.

There was a moment in the episode where the Headmaster Juniors got their Transtectors where... Chromedome?... seemed like he was in a battle. I think it's actually just stock footage from the Headmasters show, but whatever. That kinda made me think that it was possible that Masterforce was beginning while Headmasters was ending. Meaning there was some sort of overlap. That's just the impression that it gave me, I'm not saying that's how it was. In fact, I'd prefer it to not be that way. I'm just saying.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-24 16:00:13
Nah, that video of Chromedome was a recording (and stock footage from his commercial bumper). It was made prior to the series began.

Say, I forgot to ask. Since you're watching Masterforce now, did you watch The Headmasters beforehand?
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-24 17:09:23
Nope. I'm not terribly interested in Headmasters. I'll watch it eventually, but I just haven't gotten around to it. Besides, I'm fairly certain the events of Headmasters don't directly effect Masterforce. I'm more drawn to Masterforce because it's some new and interesting characters. Headmasters is just a lot more of the same, it seems. I don't know, I'll get to it eventually.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-12-24 17:57:27
Well, when you get the chance to, check out The Headmasters. I thought it was a great improvement over the Rebirth. It felt like G1 but with a more serious tone. I highly recommend it as it completes the G1 series even better than the Rebirth did (even though the Rebirth aired after The Headmasters began).
TriPredRavage said,  - 2008-12-24 18:27:01
I'll get around to it eventually.
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