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Discussion Topic: Transformers Animated Premier

Posted by:
Human Error at 2007-12-26 7:29 pm
Alright boys and girls the long awaited Transformers Animated premiers today!  So, what did everyone think?  We want to hear your thoughts! 

Also don't forget the actual show starts on January 5'th at 10:30 am on Cartoon Network.

Comments
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Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 19:41:59
G1 footage is used. It's true. I'm watching it now and Prime was looking at a history track and the images shown were G1 Cybertron history footage. The Guardian Robots, some generic Cybertronians, and G1 Megatron were seen.

Also, three people strongly resembling Spike, Carly, and Daniel are seen.
Autobutt said,  - 2007-12-26 19:46:02
I liked the intro wit the G1 footage, but i realy dont like the fact that Ratchett is the same G1 Ratchett and that everyone else are complete rookies but they have the same names as Ratchett's old friends... doesnt that bother him?
also the Decepticons confuse me... if this is supposed to take place after G1, shouldnt Megs and Starscream be dead? it really seems like SS is the same person, but according to Ratchett Megatron really is the same guy from G1...
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 19:52:21
This Ratchet is probably a different one, younger than G1 Ratchet, but still old enough to remember G1. The bots and cons with G1 names are likely new bots with the same names as the G1 bots.

But wait, since this is the pilot, this series may have NO connection to G1. The footage and cameo appearances are most likely a nod to the fans. How else would Spike family be alive 100 years after 2006/2010?
Human Error said,  - 2007-12-26 20:00:58
So, apparently a 1 solar cycle = one year?
Autobutt said,  - 2007-12-26 20:10:27
What? i dont remember seeing Spike's family anywhere... and yea Sabrblade, thats a possibility but it still bugs me that if this is after G1, the names of great Autobots are misused also do u remember seeing Magnus? apparently hes the same

Human Error... who knos wat a solar cycle is but it is most likely a yea
chicane said,  - 2007-12-26 20:15:09
Don't spoil it!
Autobutt said,  - 2007-12-26 20:16:45
hey chicane, we're supposed to be disscussing the actual Premier...


and wow. Starscream is HUGE
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 20:21:28
I doubt Magnus is in charge. He's superior to Optimus in this series.
Human Error said,  - 2007-12-26 20:22:37
lol, i only said that because Starscream said he's been looking for 50 solar cycles and that was 50 years later.

edit: come to think of it a solar cycle being a year makes sense because it takes a year for the earth to revolve around the sun. but why would an alien use that to tell the passing of time, unless Cybertron is in out solar system. ok i thought way to much into that.


I love Starscreams voice! every now and then i hear a littl Spongebob in there and, i cant help but hear Patrick in Bulkhead
Autobutt said,  - 2007-12-26 20:26:20
lol ok H.E.

and i jus realized....

guess wat Sari's key looks like (hint: looks like something gold and is still a key)
Autobutt said,  - 2007-12-26 20:31:21
ok. its over now.........

is Sari's dad evil? i didnt quite understand the end
Tyscream said,  - 2007-12-26 20:32:18
That was so cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Starscream was so cool! Bulkhead and Bumblebee were so funny! It makes me just love this new show. I give it a 100! ^_^ And Megs wad plain Darth Vader.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 20:33:19
Yeah, I guess there's a SLIGHT resemblance to Vector Sigma's key with Sari's key.

Oh, and if you missed'em, the Witwickys can be seen in the narration of how Detroit changed from how it was in the 21st century to the 22nd, Spike is getting Daniel an ice cream and Carly is with them.

And btw, the violence is defientely movie-inspired.
deceptifan said,  - 2007-12-26 20:36:34
i just saw it and it was so awesome! I'm going to love it! Itwas so funny when Sari let the autobots know about "'that leaking thing'!
Sadler said,  - 2007-12-26 20:37:20
Acualy, Autobutt, Sari's dad isnt evil, he just used Megatron's head to make his robots & wondered if he will ever be forgiven if his secret is found out.
Tyscream said,  - 2007-12-26 20:40:56
I know! Starscream was so funny when he was talking to himself in the war ship. lol! But Bumblebee's voice being from Ben 10 was funny too! This iis indeed my favorite Transformers cartoon.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-26 20:41:17
Okay, TFA is the greatest TF series since the Beast Wars. That was the best hour and a half spent since the movie. I loved the Witwicky family cameo in the second half hour. I loved the G1 footage, and the dog Sparkplug. The G1 references were amazing. I love TFA Prime.

Then it hit us with the BW dialouge. All the "Big Bots" and the "Boss Bots" I was in heaven. And of course "We're all gonna die". Priceless.

I did have one complaint. I was not to pleased with the actual transformation animation. I think it tried a little too hard to be reminicent of anime and the things we had in the Unicron Trilogy, but my goodness did TFA deliver.

Now, here's the question. Does TFA have the stuff it takes to actually kill off a character? They came close, but didn't cross that line just yet.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 20:44:50
Yes, Starscream clearly killed fighter pilots. I saw several jets that didn't eject parachuted pilots.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-26 20:50:56
Oh, and Sari explaining how "smaller organics" come to be was priceless.

Yeah, but those were people, Sabrblade. They don't count as characters in a TF series, we all know that, lol
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 20:56:15
Hey a death's a death, isn't it?

Besides, when a TF died in a past series, it had the ability to be brought back to life.

Humans can't, those pilots are down, they ain't comin' back.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-26 20:59:09
Yeah, but I'm talkin' death like Dinobot or Depthcharge. Things that take the series to the next level. Some lame fighter pilots taken down by Starscream doesn't do that. It takes Starscream to the next level, but not the series as a whole.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 21:02:50
Gotcha.

But I just hope that the G1 footage doesn't get people believing that this series is part of G1. Everyone acts like Megs is the same one as G1, but that causes MANY conflicts, both US G1-related and Japanese G1-related
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-26 21:06:05
Yeah, I don't think it's a continuation of G1. I think it was just a reference. The thing is, the US series and the Japanese series can all be put in chronologically at the most until the Unicron Trilogy. I think that RiD is G1 altered by the Beast Wars, which is why we have Autobots and Predacons duking it out.
lordmegamusprime said,  - 2007-12-26 21:08:37
so far my fave is blitzwing with his triple faces that will be a cool toy. i cant wait for the constructicons to appear and im hoping to see unicron make another comeback. over all i give the show a 5 out of 10 for now
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 21:14:18
TPR, I have tried HARD to figure out how to put RiD in the G1 universe. I've even tried fitting it in after the G1 manga and before Robotmasters, Kiss Players, and Binaltech, but it's too complicated and nerve-racking because it just doesn't fit in right enough to make sense.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-26 21:30:07
I think it fits pretty well where I said. The Decepticons became Predacons because of Beast Megatron takning G1's spark. Starscream became Darkscream, Skywarp became Skybite, Brawn became X-Brawn, Sideswipe became Sideburn and then anybody who retained a name from G1 was who they were. I haven't quite figured out Slapper and Gaskunk, but hey, give me a break. I've only been working on this theory for about seven years now, it takes time, lol.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 21:34:37
Pardon me, but WHERE exactly did ANY of that happen?

Can you back your theory with proof?

This page is the best I can figure out how to link it to the G1verse:
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Generation_1_cartoon_timeline_%28Japan%29
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-26 21:48:22
Here's the original timeline as I understand it:
G1>Headmasters>Masterforce>Victory>Zone>Beast Wars>Beast Wars II>Beast Wars Neo>Beast Machines>Universe

But then:
The Maximals and Predacons go back in time to when the G1 guys are in stasis. Beast Megatron clearly interferes with the original timeline causing changes to occur. Thus the original G1 series is impacted. Characters change and the Decepticons become Predacons.

Overall the timeline is hard to draw because there are branches flying out of nowhere because of Machine Wars, Robot Masters and Alternators. Ultimately I believe that RiD is where G1 is on the timeline when the altered Earth from the Beast Wars reaches that time.

And sorry, but the Transformers Wiki is horrible. That site makes me cringe. Everything on it is a joke rather than encyclopedic.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-26 21:56:45
This is the closest thing to the timeline I've seen. But of course it's from the TF Wiki, so it's incomplete:

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/1/1d/Continuities.png
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 22:15:33
The jokes are only in the image captions, they are sparingly used in the text.

Then maybe this page may suit your taste better:
http://transformers.wikia.com/wiki/Generation_1_cartoon_timeline_%28Japan%29/src
It's also from the TF Wiki, BUT it's source material, translated from Japanese.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-26 22:22:42
I assure you, that doesn't suit my tastes any better, lol.

Those timelines feature to heavily on trying to actaully pin a date to when event occur that they tend to lose sight of the importance of the events.

Here's the thing, the RiD theory is my theory. I don't say it's how the series actually goes, but it works and that's all that matters to me. I include it when I give a history lesson, but I also explain that it's speculation.

And one day, when I'm in charge of the TF media, I'll be sure to include it in an encyclopedia and eveyone'll take it for law. But until then, it's just my theory and I'm happy with it being that. XD
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 22:26:08
You sure do think positive, don't ya?

Anyway, This special to me seemed like it was only an hour long. Could anyone tell when each of the three parts were split into three episodes? I could only spot one split, not both.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-26 22:29:01
I did know this...
I think one was where the dad found Megatron, one was where Starscream was shown for the first time since the beginning... and then the end. I think that was where each part ended.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-26 22:29:41
thx

Now, I think I'll catch some Z's.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-26 22:35:39
Cool, g'night!
Leohoss said,  - 2007-12-26 22:54:32
This new cartoon is a new telling of the Transformers story.It pays a lot of homage to the past transformers series,but it is separate from them.In this new story,the Autobots and Decepticons arrive on Earth in the early 21st century, instead of 4 million years in the past.Prime is not the leader of the Autobots.He is a leader of a small group only.
Scorpomike said,  - 2007-12-26 23:18:05
I guess time will tell if this series has any connection to another series. For now just watch it, this is a cool cartoon that can't be missed.
Scorpomike said,  - 2007-12-26 23:26:35
I must also add, there were way too many commercials!
Duckie said,  - 2007-12-26 23:56:30
Okiedokie. so, I part way watched it and part way played with my figures at the same time. What I actually payed direct attention to was ASTOUNDINGLY good. It was a LOT better than what I was expecting it to be. The reason that I was doing other things is because I was recording it to view later so I could review it for anything that I missed in the initial viewing. But, nonetheless, I was in the room near the tv for pretty much the entire time. I think I was only out to get a drink or something once or twice.
I, honestly, do not see that many flaws in the names of the characters like some of you have seen. To me, it makes it more like the G1 series, as they were exploring the galaxy and lost in an asteroid field, etc. I saw it as a somewhat re-interpreted version of the G1 storyline, to be truthful.
As for the series references, I LOVED them. The Decepticon ship looked very close to the "Nemesis", and the Autobot's ship was close to the "Ark". I clapped for the G1 scenes at the beginning, as well as the lines from the various series. I also loved the tie in to the movie, where modern technology is derived from a crashed Megatron.
I think that the series is going to be pretty good, especially because it has SO much to draw from for influence. I think that that is what makes Transformers so great, because the story can be re-told in as many ways as someone wants to, and its still great no matter what.

Also, I don't know if its just me or not, but did anyone else think that Megatron sounded like Mr. Freeze from the animated Batman cartoons?
Darkton said,  - 2007-12-26 23:57:07
Not a bad start. Really liked Starscream and Megatron. Sari is actually kind of cute. I also liked all the nods to G1. The intro was one thing, but you can also catch a brief G1 movie reference around the end. The character potrayal is also quite nice. Glad to see that Starscream is basically the same Starscream we've all known before, but cooler.

A few things I didn't like included the Autobots being referred to as "superheroes". It just doesn't feel right. Also, when Starscream shoots down the fighter jets, the first two manage to escape via parachutes. It feels a little PC and ultimately reminiscent of GI Joe.

Voice acting was pretty good, too. As I said before, Sari is kinda cute, primarily because of her voice. Plus, Starscream's is almost exactly the same as G1, which is good. Ratchet is an awfully good homage to Kup, as is his voice. And David Kaye does a wonderful job on Optimus Prime after playing his opposite for so many years.

A good start to a series. Now all it has to do is live up to all the hype. 8/10
Tramp said,  - 2007-12-27 00:11:01
This was a great pilot episode. The G1 homages were pefect, and the characterizations were spot-on. Ratchet was real interesting. He's a mix of the original Ratchet a;long with Ironhide and Kup all rolled into one. Sari is just too cute. I love Tara Strong (too bad she's taken). The look on Prime's face when Sari told him about "the birds and the bees" was priceless. It had me in stitches. I can't wait for the regular series to begin.
Menastator said,  - 2007-12-27 05:36:04
I think the funniest part was when the Decepticons were arguing aboard their ship. I like Blitzwing!
By the way Darktron, do you mean when Optimus turns gray when he almost dies?
deceptifan said,  - 2007-12-27 07:02:02
Duckie, I watch that show (Batman), but never yet saw Freeze. And I like the transformers wiki. I'm kind of glad I don't understand all the jokes. And again, Animated is awesome!
Human Error said,  - 2007-12-27 09:41:14
I think he is referring to "Batman The Animated Series" and not that god awful "The Batman" series that is currently running on the WB.
Menastator said,  - 2007-12-27 10:08:21
I have noticed so many movie and G1/BW references, plus new stuff, that I've decided to make a list to share with you all.
Movie
-Starscream attacks Bumblebee when he is lifting something.
-They are fighting over the Allspark.
-The tech is all inspired from Megs.
-Megatron's design
G1/BW
-Ratchet's look
-Ultra Magnus's look
-Bumblebee's look
-Axalon is mentioned
-Omega is mentioned twice(Omega Supreme)
-Alpha is mentioned (Alpha Trion)
-OP's Design
New stuff
-New character name(Lugnut)
-Megs wants to use the Allspark for a super weapon.
-Starscream is the first Decepticon to come to Earth.
-
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-27 10:10:49
"The Batman" is not all that bad. you obviuosly jhaven't seen the episode where he fights Bane for the first time. Bane threw the Bat through a brick wall. He almost killed the Batman. Even the cops assumed he was dead. It took the use of a robotic suit, piloted by a severely wounded Bruce, to take down Bane.

Anyway, this series reminds me an awful lot like an idea for a modern Beast Wars I came up with, except it had unused Maximals (led by Polar Claw) and Predacons (led by Buzzsaw, then Shadow Panther, then Transmetal Scavenger).
Human Error said,  - 2007-12-27 10:49:44
i have seen that episode and understand what your saying Sabrblade it was a pretty good one. But one or two good episodes does not a good series make. I keep trying to give "The Batman" a chance because im a huge Batman fan but it just falls flat for me. but hey to each their own, just because i dont like it doesnt mean its bad per say.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-27 11:12:07
Well, the newest season involves the Bat teaming up with a member of the JLA each episode.

Plus, this just a question, have you seen the one where Robin's parents are killed? I never expected that, or even the appearance of a mob boss, to be shown. They must've kept the PCs away during that one.

Anyway, I just hope that when the Angry Archer appears, they refer to him as "Archer" more than "Angry Archer", cuz that just sounds messed up. Can you guys imagine someone screaming, "Look out, it's the Angry Archer! Run!"
Ugh! Please let him be called "Angry" once and be just "Archer" the rest of the time.
Ballistic said,  - 2007-12-27 11:21:41
Wow... crashing in Lake Erie? I grew up on an island in Lake Erie and the water is 30 feet deep at best. That ship wouldn't sink, it would be mostly above the water surface. The part with Bumblebee introducing himself to Sari was pretty funny. It's like "Wow, you're bumblebee? That sucks" since so many fans seem to hate him.
Human Error said,  - 2007-12-27 11:53:22
yeah theres that and the question that comes to my mind is, no one found a space ship sitting at the bottom of lake Erie in all the 50 years that it was there?
Blasten Blaster said,  - 2007-12-27 13:05:06
Yeah, but remember lake erie is one of the great lakes and they're deeper than most seas
Chaos Bringer said,  - 2007-12-27 15:27:56
Gobots Animated. I'm still saying it. Gobots Animated. It just doesn't have the Transformers feel to it. The whole "Autobots as Superheros" idea clearly isn't being dropped and the Decepticons are still being downplayed.

Being a decepticon fan really sucks these days.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-27 15:53:33
"Gobots Animated."

It's been done, my friend. Twice, actually. One an 80's cartoon based off the 80's toyline, the other as a four-episode series based off the Playskool ones.

About the "Autobots as superheroes" thing, they aren't superheroes, the humans just think of them as that. I mean, what else would they think them as? Just some alien bots that happen to be doing some "random acts of kindness"? Nope.
Scorpomike said,  - 2007-12-27 16:21:17
Hey Chaos Bringer, do you ever have anything good to say about anything. All I hear is negative stuff out of you. Maybe you just don't like Transformers.
Autobutt said,  - 2007-12-27 16:52:05
wow. many of my questions have been answerd. thank you unicron.com lol
chicane said,  - 2007-12-27 17:09:09
I really want to know...is the show kiddish?For example,do I have to watch it in private?
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-27 17:25:29
It's both "Armada kiddish" and "Beast Wars cool". You can watch it how ever you want to.
Ed said,  - 2007-12-27 18:14:46
I thought this show rocked if this is a sign of things to come we are in good shape. Can't wait to see other decepticons, and more autobots.
Starscream said,  - 2007-12-27 18:35:07
Hey everyone,I just saw the premiere on Cartoon Network and Wow!! I don't think it realy has any connections to G1,other than the characters though. The animation at the begining of the premire was Based on G1 animation,but it wasn't the same. On the other hand,I am still trying to figure out what the Allspark did to me! I'm stuck somewhere dark and cold (Did I mention that I have a broken wing?).Grrr! I'LL GET YOU NEXT TIME PRIME!!!!!
Mirage2006 said,  - 2007-12-27 20:53:59
It was pretty awesome. I kind of liked the part where Bulkhead mistakes Sari for a pet and her robot dog (called Sparkplug, a homage to Sparkplug Witwicky) is the owner. In many ways it does have links to the live action movie like Megatron trying to get the Allspark, him crash landing on Earth and having a human find him and studying him to make stuff for the modern age, with the human being Mr. Issac Sumdac. It's like in the movie. Allspark is sent away, Megatron follows it, crash lands on Earth, Captain Witwicky finds him, and people study to make stuff for the modern age. Similarties? I think SO. Also, I did kind of like Bumblebee and Sari's relationship. It kind of reminded me of G1 Bumblebee and Spike's relationship, and also of Movie Bumblebee and Sam's relationship. All in all, I give Transformers Animated two thumbs way up to Cybertron!! Very good indeed!
Bruticus_42 said,  - 2007-12-28 10:38:05
Ok, time for my hat to be thrown into this topic. The show was good. Not great, but good. The G1 begining is nice, thanks to the animators for that. The Ratchet now is the same Ratchet from olden days? Don't think so. Didn't even sound like him. Now the guy who does the voice of Ultra Magnus did a great job in doing the movie Robert Stack voice. But having him as the leader of Cybertron, can he deal with it now? And who the hell is Sentinal Prime? BB is ok, don't like his voice. Bulkhead is a waist of a character. I wish they would have used another character, or maybe call Bulkhead Brawn or something. Prowl was cool, nice touch on him. Prime, at least they didn't try to make him into the original. But he has some issues, looks like he was a great Autobot at one time, but now some of the other Primes were making fun of him. Now is UM the holder of the Matrix until Prime is ready? Like the movie? Hmmmm. Is this Prime going to be like Hotrod? And grow to a bigger Prime when he DOES receive the Matrix? Did I just spoil it for the series? Hmmmmmm.
Byrer prime said,  - 2007-12-28 11:27:27
TriPred, you may have hit the nail on the head with your RiD origin. I've always seen the many universes as alternate realities, where different outcomes cause multiple realities. I never thought of how RiD or the others could have spun off. Actually, I always thought that in G1 the Mini-Cons escape undetected and in the Unicron Trilogy they do not. With Classics being a continuation of G1, those Mini-Cons must have just come out of hiding, or were discovered. That timeline that someone saw on wiki is from the collector club magazine and should be considered fact. I also think that the history Prime was watching was factual and might be delved into in future episodes. The Spike and family was just an easter egg for fans. And I remember haering that they wanted the story to be similar to the movie so kids can relate easier.
Ballistic said,  - 2007-12-28 11:34:43
"Blasten Blaster said, - 2007-12-27 13:05:06
Yeah, but remember lake erie is one of the great lakes and they're deeper than most seas"

30 feet isn't very deep. That's how deep Lake Erie is. The ship would be sticking out. It's the shallowest of the Great Lakes. Not to mention that Detroit is way too far North to actually border on it. It looks like they would have to crash into Lake St. Clair.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 12:03:16
With all due respect, this talk of continuity is making my head hurt.

This is what I've always believed how all the series go:

* G1 seasons 1 & 2 - first series
* Scramble City - side story
* G1 Movie - series movie
* G1 season 3 -movie continuation
* The Headmasters - series sequel
* Super-god Masterforce - second series sequel
* Victory - third series sequel
* Zone - Final series sequel and first manga continuation
* Battlestars: Return of Convoy - manga sequel
* Operation: Combination - second manga sequel
* G2 - third manga sequel and first toyline reboot
* Beast Wars season 1- first questionable reboot
* Beast Wars II - BW sequel/side story
* Beast Wars Special - side story/movie
* Beast Wars Neo - second BW sequel/side story
* Beast Wars seasons 2 & 3 - BW continuation that confimed BW in-continuity
* Beast Machines - true BW sequel

* Robots in Disguise - first FULL reboot, G1 references are nods to fans, Takara later attempts to retcon it into G1 universe which causes MAJOR confusion
.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 12:03:29
.
* Armada - second full reboot
* Energon - Armada sequel
* Cybertron - questionable second Armada sequel, originally meant to be another FULL reboot, Hasbro attempts to retcon it into A/E universe which causes varying results

* Classics - second toyline reboot, no connections to any of the animated series, one comic - sequel to Marvel comics only

* 2007 Movie - first Stand-alone feature film/third or fourth full reboot
* Movie sequel - still being made, yet to air

* Animated - newest FULL reboot, like RiD it contains G1 references that are just nods to the fans.


There's also some others:

* Robotmasters - side story set between G1 season 2 & Scramble City, and the G1 movie
* Binaltech/Alternators - side story set prior to the G1 movie, but branches off into it's own timeline
* Kiss Players - several side stories set between G1 seasons 2 and 3


And these questionable ones:

* Critcal Mass and Point Omega stories - side stories set within Beast Wars seasons 2 and 3
* Primeval Dawn - side story set after BW season 3
* The Wreckers - side story set during Beast Machines
* Universe - story set after Beast Machines
* Beast Wars Reborn - mini-story set after Beast Machines
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 12:29:29
You are taking this way too seriously Sabr. One of the things is that there are big discrepencies between comic universes and cartoon universes, so it all depends on the media you go off of. That being said, no matter how many series you list there will always be more than you'll know. For example, I don't see you listing the video game continuities or the G.I. Joe series on your list, even though they each have their own stories. Also, you are atributing too much to side stories. Just because things happen outside of the major plot of a series, doesn't make it any less important to the over all continuity.

Critical Mass, Omega Point, Primeval Dawn, Wreckers, Universe, and Beast Wars Reborn are all part of the original continuity. Universe is the first thing after Beast Machines. Wreckers is another title under the universe arc (just like we have Batman comics and Superman comics, they are both part of the same continuity, they just happen in different places). Primeval dawn is before Universe and Wreckers, but right after the Maximals leave prehistoric Earth.

Now, you seem to be having trouble with my RiD Theory. I don't know if it's because you don't accept it (which is fine, like I said, it's my theory and I don't atribute it to fact at all), or you don't understand it. So here's a quick digest of it:

G1 happens, then a whole bunch of years later BW happens, where the Maximals and Predacons go back 3 million years or so into the past when the Autobots and Decepticons are in stasis. So the Beast Wars take place altering the G1 continuity, so when the Autobots and Decepticons awaken they are all changed and different in personallity, thus giving us RiD.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 12:37:49
But... but, they said in Beast Wars they fixed the timestream.

Also, there's one thing you've overlooked. The Cons and Preds in RiD were never meant to be those, Hasbro had to use those terms in order to keep from losing them (the same reason they reuse "Optimus Prime", "Megatron", and "Starscream" over and over). The Autobots were still Cybertrons, but the Cons and Preds weren't exactly Destrons. They were a new group using the Pred/Destron symbol called Destrongers. The RiD Cons were a subgroup of Destrongers called Combatrons (named after the Japanese name for the Combaticons) and wore an upside down G2 Autobot symbol as their Destronger mark. And Prime and Megs weren't Convoy and Megs, they were Fire Convoy (new guy) and Gigatron.

And I was only listing those series that are part/connected to any animated series (except for Classics, I figured since it was the only toyline of 2006 that, it should be ignored, but we have yet to see what, if any, fiction the Japanese will come up with for Henkei Henkei Transformers...).

And I know where each of the last 5 bulleted items go in the original continuity, it's just they sorta contradict few things in the above-mentioned items.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 13:13:06
Okay, you said exactly what I wanted you to say. We are talking about two completely different things. You are talking about Car Robots, I am talking about RiD. Car Robots, as I know you know, is the Japanese version of RiD, BUT the two series are completely different. To consider RiD and Car Robots the same is a mistake.

Now, talking about the business of the matter (which I knew all of this) doesn't change anything. Just because in Japan Convoy and Fire Convoy are not the same person does not mean that the English versions of Optimus Prime can't be. You saying that they were never meant to be is correct, but only in the Japan. In the English version they are Optimus and Megatron indisputably. Now, the Preds being Destrongers (I knew this, too) doesn't change anything either because they weren't going to come up with a new faction name for a still pretty new symbol, so the Destrongers became Predacons because they used their symbol.

So my overall point is, yeah, Car Robots is a reboot, but RiD is completely different. There is so much stuff cut out of RiD that was in Car Robots it's unbelievable, but because of this and the names and the factions, it is possible for RiD to be part of the original continuity, you just need to open your mind to it.

And the Beast Wars did fix the timestream in that all Autobots and Decepticons were still alive. But things did change, such as animals and plants died, they blew up a mountain (several in fact) and things did change. There is NO fixing that. Inevitably, the timeline still changed.

Oh, and Classics is also part of the original continuity. It is part of the comic continuity, while the Japanese series are part of the animated continuity. If you get the chance, read this past Botcon's collector's comic, it fits it in there with the old comics.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 13:19:16
But I'm not talking about the comics continuity, I'm talking about the animated continuity, which Classics isn't part of.

And I would read Botcon's comic if I could. I have never been to Botcon and I am dying to go! All I've ever seen of it are the footage on RHINO's dvds and images/footage on the Internet. Just how fun is Botcon anyway?
Byrer prime said,  - 2007-12-28 13:20:11
Hey TriPred, e-mail me with as many specifics as you can muster. What events were different from the way they happened, etc. This is so intruiging even if I seem to be the only one who thinks so.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 13:25:53
Uh... okay, Byrer. By the way, thanks for the support on the RiD theory, I saw your comment above, I just hadn't gotten to say anything about it yet, lol.

You're right Sabr, Classics isn't part of the animated at all. But in the same respects, then neither is Battlestars or Operation Combination. And check out a comics store, I haven't been to Botcon either (yet), but a comic store near me as for the past two years gotten the comics from it and I've been able to read Dawn of Futures past and Games of Deception. Check 'em out, they're must reads.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 13:32:34
Uh... huh? How are Battlestars and Op. Comm not part of the G1 animated continuity?
Luketroop said,  - 2007-12-28 13:54:37
The show was all right. I liked starscream because he was huge and powerful.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 13:55:59
Because they didn't have animated counterparts... right? I've never seen animation for Battlestars or OpComb.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 14:00:44
It picks up where the Zone manga ended.

G1 series - HM series - MF series- Victory series - Zone episode - Zone manga - Battlestars manga - Op. Comm manga - G2 manga.

If you're still not sure, check that timeline chart you mentioned before. The colorful boxes one.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 14:04:24
Hmm... Manga. I can't consider the Manga any different than any of the comics simply because most of the time they are just like the American comics and are different continuities. I don't even consider the current Beast Wars comics a continuation of the BW series because it contradicts BWII and Neo, despite that it tries to compensate both.
Human Error said,  - 2007-12-28 14:07:51
ouch i think my brain is melting a little bit.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 14:12:38
Usually the manga tries to coincide with the animated continities, EXCEPT for the Masterforce, Victory, BWII, BW Neo, and BW Metals manga - they're out of continuity.

And I agree on the BW comics. They contradict BWII and Neo. As do the Point Omega comic from awhile back. In those the (purple) Dark Essence of Unicron winds up on Prehistoric Earth, and is later destroyed by the Covenant. BUT, In BWII and Neo, it is found as (yellow/green) Angolmois Energy on Gaia, Future Earth. How could it be on Gaia in the future if it was destroyed in the past? AND, if it was destroyed, how could Unicron be around in Armada/Universe/Energon? Confusing, isn't it?
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 14:17:18
Yeah, Omega Point is probably my most disputed story. But I excuse it because when it came out BWII and Neo didn't even remotely have anything to do with us. BWII was out in Japan, but we knew very little (if anything) about it at the time. I just usually try and figure out where the comics are coming from and then accept them from there.

Why is your brain melting Human Error?
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 14:26:24
If ya think Omega Point is nerve-racking, try figuring out the other four of the "Questionable Ones" in my list.

Critical mass and the Visitations part of Point Omega involve several BotCon exclusives taking part in the Beast Wars, interacting with several show characters. How is that possible?

Wreckers and Primeval Dawn are clearly in the same continuity as Point Omega, as evidenced by the backstory in Wreckers issue 1. But Wreckers is also shown to be part of Beast Machines which is definitely in-continuty. And since Point Omega is in dispute, that makes these two also debatable.

Finally, there's Univers and Beast Wars Reborn. Both take place after Beast Machines, but AT THE SAME TIME? Universe has Optimus Primal reborn on Cybertron to help combat Unicron's threat. BUT, BWR has Optimus Primal reborn, along with Megatron, on some ship with no memory of his past life. What going on here?!!
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 14:31:40
Omega Point involves time travel and different universes though, if I'm not mistaken. They try and reconscile this in Wreckers pt1 if I remember correctly. They didn't do it too well... but they tried. And Beast Wars Reborn is another series I just don't pay attention to because it is strictly a Japanese story and it took them nearly, what, seven years to get Beast Machines? So I don't sweat too much about BWR. I spend most of my time trying to figure out Robot Masters, personally. I like to think that it takes place right after the BWII movie and that's how Optimus Primal get's there.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 14:48:52
I agree on the Robotmasters thing. There's just one thing that keeps the idea that Primal went to Gaia when planetbuster blew up (and I really want to believe this idea) from happening. When the Planetbuster exploded. Pieces of Primal's body areclearly shown in the aftermath of the explosion, which knock the whole idea out of proportion. Darn it!

But anyway. When I think about when Primal and Megs are sent through the Blastizone/Blasty Zone to the present, the only time I can think of when Megs goes is when he passes out during the Quantum Surge. Ya know, when he screams, "Aaaaaaagggghhh! AAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHH! Ugh! What is- HAPPENING TO MEEEEEEEEeeeeee?!!! (thud!)". LOL

And then he comes back to the past before Primal though another Blastizone/Blasty Zone with no memory of the Robotmasters battles.

Btw, in Robotmasters, Primal, Megs, and Lio Convoy are giant like the Bots and Cons. I guess the Blastizone/Blasty Zone adds a few hundred pounds. :P

That brings up two other issues: One, when in BWII does Beast Wars Special (the movie) take place anyway? Two, at what point in BWII (or Neo, perhaps)would Lio Convoy be transported to the past through the B. Zone?
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 15:10:05
Yeah, I've tried figuring those out too. I'll be sure to let you know when I come up with a completely congruent answer to those questions but as of now I think in all continuities it's open ended.

Here's my theory on that:
When Rhinox is looking for Primal, it sounds like he's having difficulties with his whole "It's gotta be here, on the other side of the Matrix" line. Now, when Primal first appears in BWII Movie, he is only energy and materializes when he touches Leo Prime (that's what I call him, all arguments aside, let's not get into it, please). Now, I think that along with coming from the dead is what allows him to perform the Matrix blast and go "Burning Convoy" super mode.

Okay, so then he leaves through the worm hole thing. I think that Leo Prime ends up in the Robot Masters when he is sucked into the worm hole in Beast Wars Neo and that explains his absense for so long. It's why Leo Prime can't be found or contacted, he's not even in that time zone. So that's my theory on Primal and Leo. I still haven't figured out how Megs gets there, but I'm working on it. I think the other two sound pretty good though. *shrugs*
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 15:17:36
Also, Byrer, I sent you your email. But be warned, it's a doosey.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 15:43:27
Well, about that Burning Convoy thing, I've always thought that he had his matrix in his possesion during the entire BW season 1, but never used it because he never had to or didn't want to. The energon matixes were given to those who would be Maximal Commanders and Primal was merely an exploration ship captain. He must've not wanted it or something since he only used in BW Special and Robotmasters. Little did he know that he would be involved in the Beast Wars, the Sparkwar, and become Cybertron's hero. I guess Vector Sigma knew something Primal didn't.

And we can assumed his energon matrix was destroyed with his body in the planetbuster explosion since we see his body parts floating in space.

And I can understand why U call Lio Convoy Leo Prime. Cuz the Classics toy does look like him. And I expected that to be his official US name, but when IDW called him Lio Convoy/Leo Convoy (I don't know which), I gave up "Leo Prime". Not know what to call him, I looked up what was in BWII, and now I call him Lio Convoy.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 16:20:14
Yeah, the whole Lio Convoy/Leo Prime thing is messed up. I've honestly waged wars on the whole topic. It all boils down to that Furman decided not to change any of the Japanese characters' names despite any changes that have occured over the past years. In the end, Leo Prime is meant to be Lio Convoy, but then his most recent fiction didn't follow up on that.

I don't think Primal had the matrix. In fact, I'm positive of it. In all English continuity he's never had it and I leave it at that. But in Japan where he is Convoy also, it makes sense for him to have it, Convoy being the equivallent of Prime. I'm pretty sure that all Convoys in Japan carry a matrix, the only matrix bearer I know that doesn't in Japan is Magnus in Car Robots, where he is God Magnus.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 16:32:47
Ya know, I've actually come up with my own idea of a US Beast Wars movie that brings Burning Convoy into the western fiction. It's full of action, jealousy, revenge, betrayal, hatred, and a cameo appearance of Unicron, or at least his eyes. But it ignores all the BotCon BW comics and the idea that Shadow Panther is Ravage.

Sometime I'll put on the Net some where for people to read. Most likely it'll be on the forums at Seibertron.com. But for now, I'll just say it has Onyx Primal, Arachnid, and Orcanoch as the only new characters and is set between "Law of the Jungle" and "Before the Storm".
Human Error said,  - 2007-12-28 16:33:22
lol just because of all the debating (its melting in a good way)
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 17:24:09
Woah, Sabr, you are taking me out of my comfort zone declaring Shadow Panther as a seperate entity from Ravage. I think you're giving me a personality complex with that one. lol

Glad to hear we can get the mind winding, HE, lol
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 18:26:21
Well, I came up with this idea before I read that some believe Shadow Panther and Ravage to be the same guy.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-28 19:09:37
Well that's the thing, officially they are the same, lol. Shadow Panther ended up being sold as Tripredacus Agent online through some Hasbro Import site. So Shadow Panther is officially a Ravage incarnation. Now worries though, I'm just messin' with ya.
Tramp said,  - 2007-12-28 19:16:00
TriPred, you are mistaken on one fact about RID. RID is not a part of G1 continuity. It is a reboot. In Japan, they recently made Car Robots a part of Japanese G1 continuity even though originally, it was a reboot. In the US RID is ans always has been a reboot with no connection to G1, BW, or BM. It is its own reality. The only connection it has with G1 is through the greater multiverse established by Hasbro through the Universe stroy line which connects all realities together through Primus.
Tramp said,  - 2007-12-28 19:19:24
Saberblade, Wreckers, and the rest of the BotCon stories are completely canon because they were produced under licensed from Hasbro. Also, Wreckers has direct connection to not only BW and BM, but also the or9iginal G1 cartoon. In partiicular, it provides the reconcilitaion of the Quintsson and Primus origin stories in issue 3.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-28 19:52:21
Tramp, basically you're saying Beast Wars II and Neo are not canon. Can you prove that?
Leohoss said,  - 2007-12-28 21:17:35
I've got to give it up to ya'll, your really deep into the history of the Transformers.But,I do not see a continuity problem with this new series and previous ones. As I said before,this series is different and exists by itself.It's just one of the many realities of TF.I do like this new series( I hope it will be a series).I am a big fan of the G1 series.Everything else is a distant second.Cybertron-Armada-Energon were not bad.Love the introduction of Primus.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-29 10:17:28
Tramp you pretty much missed the entire point of this discussion if you really felt you needed to come in and say those things.

And I agree Leohoss, I would be pretty surprised if I ever see TFA coming into direct continuity of G1. I think TFA made a great first impression and I'm really looking forward to more of the show.
Perceptor said,  - 2007-12-29 10:26:04
A ~100 comment discussion thread! Sa-weeeet! Amazing what happens when I've been away from the internet for a week+...!

Any thread that get's into everyone's opinions of TF continuities is alright by me! Glad everyone seemed to like TF Animated so well. Nom I'm off to read through these postings more carefully.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-29 10:37:55
Just two away from 100.

Anyway, TF: A reairs today (or is it already over). Either way, this gives (gave) those who missed it the first time a chance to see it. I just woke up, so I don't know if it's alreay over.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-29 11:06:37
I didn't know it was on again today... I must look into this. I recorded the premiere, but hey, it's never as good as watching it actually happen.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-29 11:09:25
"100th COMMENT!!!"

I think it was on earlier at 10/10:30 a.m.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-29 11:19:06
No! I was asleep at 10/10:30! How dare you Cartoon Network!? *shakes fist*
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-29 11:55:28
So was I, TPR. But I DVRed it on Wednesday.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-29 12:08:08
I DVRed Wednesday's also, but I always like watching things like that as they happen better. Oh well, no worries.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-29 12:11:03
I'm the same way with Digimon Data Squad. I hate having to miss the first airing and watch the recorded ones, but lately I had no choice because of homework and exam review. But even though that's over with, there won't be a new episode till January, so I've got time to wait.
TriPredRavage said,  - 2007-12-29 12:47:28
Ugh, Data Squad. I tried watching it but it just didn't do it for me. Season four (Frontier) was the best in my opinion. It took the quirkyness of the first two seasons and combined it with the only interesting thing of season three.
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-29 14:10:15
I watch Data Squad because I liked Savers so much. I've adjusted to the changes made by the dub, except for a few that are mild changes, but just don't seem right.

My favorites in this order are Savers first, a tie between Adventure & Frontier, then Tamers, last but not least Adventure 02.

Digimon and Transformers are my top two favorite frnachises of all, ever.
lord megatron said,  - 2007-12-29 18:07:21
Animated Blitzwing is awesome!!! "And it's gonna be the last thing you hear before, I express my feelings in song!" lol!!
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-29 23:00:25
THIS JUST IN!!! Transformers: The Animated Series will debut on Cartoon Network next Saturday at 10:30 a.m. Eastern time, starting with episode 4 "Home is Where the Spark Is".
Human Error said,  - 2007-12-30 21:14:52
lol what do you mean "this just in"? that been up in the topic for a while now. :)
Sabrblade said,  - 2007-12-30 21:50:31
that comment was posted much earlier. Check the date and time on the comment.
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-01-05 10:21:11
Episode 4 just aired!
I liked it... kinda. The whole slumber party idea was sorta lame, but bringing Megs back to life was genius. He's proved he can be a threat even when he's just a head. My hats' off to Burton for his performance. He does well as he plays Megatron. However, the Angry Archer wasn't how I pictured. He was bumbling, less-than-bright, and was basically the cliché "evil genius sidekick/lackey". But it was nice to see more of Prowl's personality. His relationship with Bumblebee reminds me of Dinobot and Rattrap (and yet everyone was comparing him to Cheetor). Overall, I can't wait till the next episode.
Human Error said,  - 2008-01-05 16:03:45
im pissed i missed it! i had the old tv set to change too it when it started but i got called in to work. oh well theres always the one tomorrow
Menastator said,  - 2008-01-05 18:12:00
If Prowl and Bumblebee are like Dinobot and Rattrap, why doesn't prowl ever call Bumblebee "vermin"?
Sabrblade said,  - 2008-01-05 18:32:39
Cuz he's a CAR, not a rodent.
5g said,  - 2009-03-28 19:06:50
etryhyhgthwsrt4rt
Georgeamus22 Of YouTube said,  - 2009-10-02 06:45:26
Animated is a good show but i find Sari a little bit annoying
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