I need that toy badly. :/

Would any of you recommend it even at aftermarket prices?

The Fallen will not lead o a UNICRON showing for a 3 movie. ( seen it already myself) the movie pretty much goes in its own way. But is is a memebr of the first 13. People will be happy.. some will be upset, others will just trash it like always. I for one i 2 nick picks. othe than that I liked it

I stated this in the forum:

"According to the Defiance comics, he and his brethren were created by the All Spark, its first creations. This origin also completely omits Primus and Unicron, and says that these creations weren't really Transformers (per se), and had only one mission: to recharge the All Spark. Here, the reason The Fallen betrayed his brothers was because he wanted the All Spark's power for himself, rather than being persuaded by Unicron to become evil.

However, this contradiction just doesn't make sense because The Fallen, like Primus and Unicron and the other twelve of the 13, is a Multiversal Singularity."

In other words, the two The Fallens are SUPPOSED to be the same guy (due to him being an M.S.), yet both fiction forms they appear in contradict themselves.


About the toy, I have it. It's okay, but it's not the best Titanium figure. His treads are quite flimsy and don't lock into place very well in vehicle mode, and they lock into place at all in Robot Mode. Though, he is the tallest and bulkiest of the the 6" Titaniums, but this figure doesn't quite do him justice. In fact, the body of this figure is not even the same one from the comics.

Though, there is a way to improve his looks. Reprolabels made an upgrade sticker set for this figure that looks awesome -- http://reprolabels.com/Misc/fallen.asp

*to DocWho*

The toy is better than purple tank megatron but not as good as say, scourge or g1 soundwave as far as titaniums go he is sturdy the only thing not to like about him is the simplicity of transformation but that is the way it is with most titaniums (except RiD Optimus). I'd say he is about on the level of war within prime for titaniums maybe slightly less. If you really love the character then go for it if you have the cash and get at a decent price but don't dish out for aftermarket prices that are like 2-3 times as much as the original suggested price unless you are rich or something.

Oh and for TF3 I'd be fine with a weaker Unicron if we got Omega Supreme for autobots.

I have the voyager-class figure! In your face!

Oh I so want this one, and the new movie version. If this guy was in my cartoon fanfic, I'd have him voiced by Michael Ansara. Did any of you guys hear that Tony Todd is the Fallen in the new movie?

Sabreblade,
I wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure out the differences between two characters from different dimensions, because in reality, one is simply the re-interpretation of another in yet another reinterpreted universe. Multiverse might be nice to try and make sense out of things, but even that doesn't work out completely. How can it be that Primus creates the Cybertronians in one universe, the Allspark in another, and then in original U.S. cartoon continuity, the Quintessions create them? Yet we get a lot of the same characters (Optimus Prime, Megatron, BumbleBee, Starscream, ect..).
Tony Todd as the voice of the Fallen? Good choice I think. Just need to make it a bit more mechanical and menacing I think though.
As for Unicron, that still remains to be seen. I think it best for Unicron to show up several movies in, but the third is too early.
And then on Primus: It was clearly stated in the first film that the Cybertronians DO NOT know where the Allspark comes from ("In the beginning was the cube. We know not where it comes from..." -Optimus Prime). Unless RotF changes that, it could be possible that Primus made the Allspark.

Sabrblade, the key word is "Apparent". Roberto Orci recently said that they would like to see Unicron in one of the sequels in this article: <url>http://tformers.com/transformers-/11777/news.html</url>, so it's quite possible that the Primus/Unicron theme will show up. Also, remember that the Allspark IS Primus, more accurately his Spark, so take that as you will. So it isn't really that hard to reconcile.

As for the Titanium version, I was never very fond of it, which is why I made my own Fallen. I do plan on getting the movie version though.

Umm, just putting it out there, if anyone is a spoiler maniac like me you know the entire Plot of the movie is on Wikipedia

Uincron would be awesome in the third movie.

@Tramp: WHERE did you get that whole "The All Spark is Primus' spark," from? That sounds more like fanfic material to me.

hhm who-is who-a-atuobot-or-d-con-or-maby-some-one-form-new-reace this who-is-alice-really-is whos-knows maby-alice-is-technoorganic-like-sari-saudaic-bcsuse no-one-haes anythining-about-ailice-yaet-i-woder-why

No. It's not Fanfic material. It's part of the established TF mythos. It has been since Beast Wars. Here's the Teletraan-1 page on the Allspark: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Allspark. I've verified much of this information from the primary sources cited on the page including The Ultimate Guide and MtMtE #1 among others. Here also is their page on Primus: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primus. The Allspark is the very essence of Primus.

dude were going to find out in 4 days!

eveybody calm down

you are all forgeting on important thing, that the origin depicted in Defiance is what The Fallen tells this Megatron and is what The Fallen wants this Megatron to beleive and it NOT nesicerly the whole truth

remember the Unicron mythos and how many different tellings there are, each telling varies according to the whom is telling it and whom it is being told too

Exactly.

Um Tramp, THAT'S THE WRONG ALLSPARK! There are THREE different Allsparks with three different spellings:

* Allspark - the TF's afterlife dimension from Beast Machines.

* All Spark - the life-giving energy cube from the Bay movies.

*AllSpark - the massive energy source of amazing power from Animated.

The first and third do not apply here. The second one is what we're suposed to be discussing.

actualy sabrblade we are discussing the fallen. and i know the the fallen from war within .very powerful . i know he was created by primus becuase in the cybertron series vetor prime mentions that. and that vetor prime him self is one of the first 13 transformers . the question i have for perceptor is who are the other 11 or 12 names of the original 13 .do you think in tf2 will say the names .
yes perceptor , orci did say he would like to see a galvatron and unicron in tf3

i agree with agent x. yes there is a inconsistant story line dating back to 1984 so what . its all about how you want to see it . you can start with the new movies or you can go with g1, beast wars or animated . what ever it is . i personaly like to mix up the storys maybe even take from here and put it there . if you read the war within you will find easter eggs like maximals predicons autobot decepticon even minicon symbols on a few pages .you dont see the others only autobots decepticons .thats why i love transformers!

To add to what Megatron said, "officially" there is only ONE Allspark. Primus is a MULTIVERSAL SINGULARITY. He exists in ALL realities as a singular being. His Spark, the Allspark, is a singular entity connected to ALL realities through a variety of avatars, and is the source of ALL Sparks from every continuity, as well as where they ultimately return upon death. Thus, all three "Allsparks" are in fact, ONE Allspark. The physical manifestations we see in the movie and in Animated are just that, avatars. The actual Allspark is astral in nature, not physical. The cube itself is just the physical avatar through which the power of the Allspark is made manifest, just as the "Animated" All Spark is, as well as the Matrix and Vector Sigma from G1, etc.

in megatron face off you have to beat megatron three times in a roll to unlock optimus prime

@Tramp: Would you say the same thing if the movie's All Spark had used its original name: The Energon Cube?

Give me one official statement that says that the dimension and the two artifacts are the same thing.

But NOT from The Ultimate Guide, as that book is overloaded with errors.

Actually Saberblade, they originally wanted to call The Allspark The Matrix, butr didn't want to confuse it with the Wachowski (sp?) bros. movies of the same name. The movie Allspark was based on a combination of the original BW Allspark, the Matrix, Vector Sigma, the Underbase, etc. all rolled into one. That was stated by Roberto Orci on the Don Murphy boards back when they were still making the first movie. And, for the record, the UG is not "overloaded with errors". The Allspark isn't a "dimension", it's an entity, It's Primus. It's the source and destination of all Sparks, hence the name "ALLSpark". As It's Walky over at Teletraan-1 said in the discussion there on the AllsparK—"The "BW" Allspark is, by definition, <b>a multiversal thing.</b> Until we get more information on the Movie All Spark, which, as you say, is a<b> "mysterious artifact,"</b> I don't think we know enough to say they're irreconcilable. --ItsWalky 21:22, 4 July 2007 (UTC)"

MtMtE #8 specifically states that the Matrix is "the conduit for the energy of Primus, the mythic creator of the Cybertronians. it is through this conduit that new life essences are channeled, it is the source of all sparks, and also the place to which they return upon deactivation." The Ultimate Guide also references the Well of All Sparks (seen in "War Within" and "War Within: Dark Ages" which establish it as the source of Sparks form which the Matrix acts as the conduit. It is at this Well that the Fallen attempted to awaken Primus during the Unbinding ceremony, and through which Primus reached out and destroyed him before resealing the well. "Wreckers #3" also states that Vector Sigma was the physical embodiment of Primus, just as "Beast Machines" established Vector Sigma as the connnection to the Allspark. Thus tying the Allspark and Primus as one singular entity.

The entire "Universe" story line is about Unicron and Primus pulling Transformers from throughout the multiverse to battle, seeking to absorb the Sparks of the defeated and thus cause the Allspark to collapse killing Primus, to prevent this, Primus, through Alpha Trion pulled forth Optimus P{rimal from the Allspark, and then a number of Autobots and Maximals from throughout the multiverse to stop Unicron. Thus, specifically establishing Primus and the Allspark as a singular entity and MULTIVERSAL in nature. Takara/Tomy's "world OF transformers establishes that the movie All Spark is just like the Matrix and Vector Sigma; it's another sacred talisman of Primus' power— http://www.takaratomy.co.jp/products/TF/bible/wottf.html (translated here: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Talk:World_of_Transformers/Section5_src) http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Primus#Fleer_and_DK.

There's your official sources.

You asked for a way to make this make sense, so I gave you one, and you want to disregard it out of hand. The All Spark cube is just like the Matrix and Vector Sigma. It is a conduit to the Allspark of Primus—a talisman of Primus' power.

tramp,i couldnt have said it any better my self. that was a good definition ! thank you finaly someone who understands.

You're welcome.

in the forums , obsidian states that the fallens voice sounds a bit like galvatron in animated movie . i wounder if he speaks alot of the cybertronian language as well.

Well, Tramp, I must say that I'm impressed. Not many would go to such a length as that to prove a point (I too am one of those who would). Well done.

I can see that you really do your homework when it comes to things like this. That is some heavy research there. I applaud your efforts and will continue this opposition no further, and now I ask you for a peaceful ceasefire. Bravo, my friend, bravo.

Though, I just hope that, whenever you're using the word "Matrix" in the above text, that you're refering to the Creation Matrix (from the Marvel Comics) instead of the Matrix of Leadership (from the cartoon).

Now, the only mystery left is, will they or will they not go in the direction of bringing Primus and Unicron into the Tyran cluster (outside of the UK Titan comics)? And will they give an official explanation for the omission of the two from The Fallen's movie origin?

i heard that the fallen is some sort of god

More like a demigod, actually.

Well Sabrblade, the Matrix of Leadership and the Creation Matrix are essentially the same thing (from their respective continuities), so that's a moot issue. As for Primus and Unicron, Roberto Orci did say he would love to see Unicron in movie three.

And Soundwave1009, Sabrblade is correct as to the 13 being essentially Demigods, not full-on gods. Primus and Unicron are gods.

tramp, man you are awsome . tramp i have question for you , maybe you are the only one to answer this . who are all the o.g 13 transformer names, the fallen, and i think vector prime. who else ?

@megatron

We don't know all the names of the 13, but there are some we know.

Prima

The Fallen (Tasked with overseeing the process of entropy)

Vector Prime (Tasked with overseeing the flow of spacetime)

Logos Prime

Nexus Maximus (Tasked with guarding the universe's Rarified Energon)

Possible members are the Leige Maximo, Maccadam, and the Last Autobot.

Alpha Trion is another candidate. Was it actually confirmed that Logos Prime was one of them? I mean Vector Prime diod call him "one of the ancients", but he didn't exactly specify what he meant by that.

Oh, in case anyone who doesn't know of Logos Prime is wondering, Logos Prime = Galaxy Force Soundblaster.

Tramp: "Well Sabrblade, the Matrix of Leadership and the Creation Matrix are essentially the same thing (from their respective continuities), so that's a moot issue."

Yes, that is true about the both Matixes, but it is worth mentioning that Primus was only shown to be inside the Creation Matrix, while he wasn't inside the Matix of Leadership in the cartoon (the Wisdom of the Ages was). This doesn't really cause any problems since Primus can be in different places in different unvierses. He was inside the Creation Matrix in the Marvel comics, but inside Planet Cybertron in a chamber in the Energon cartoon, and again was split into the four Cyber Planet Keys in the Cybertron cartoon. So, it dosn't really affect anything if Primus wasn't in the Matrix in the cartoon. So, it's okay.

In fact, the Japanese created some extra-crazy retcon in the G1 cartoon in which Primus being the same person as many other things. They say Primus = Vector Sigma = The Oracle = Primacraon's Assistant.

Primus = Vector Sigma, that's understandable

Primus = The Oracle, eh... okay, so long as The Oracle = Vector Sigma (that feminine voice kinda throws this idea off)

Primus = Primacron's Assistant, ack! From god to monkey servant. I'm good with the others, but this one's WAY too far out there for me.

Well, if you actually think about it, it does make some kind of weird sense. Look at Primacron's name. PRIMAcron. from the word Prime, or First, According to TF mythos, Unicron and Primus were created by a being called THE ONE. "Prima" is a derivative of One. And, Primacron was stated in the show to be the most ancient being in the Universe. Thus, Primacron could actually be The One. That was Japan's thinking.

Also, as for the Matrix from the cartoon, yeah, i think we can conclude that The cartoon Matrix is also connected directly to Primus just as the Marvel Creation Matrix is. Think about this. Alpha Trion merged with Vector Sigma, thus joining with the Allspark, yet, in "Rebirth", Optimus prime communes with Alpha Trion through The Matrix. Thus, the Matrix and Vector Sigma are both intrinsically linked through Primus.

As for the Oracle, Wreckers #3 reveals that "Oracle" as a shell program the Quints implanted into Vector Sigma to cut Primus off from his "children", subvert his will, and control his physical form.

As for the Thirteen, I would definitely classify Alpha Trion as one of them, though other fans disagree. First off, he was specifically stated to be a First Generation product of Vector Sigma (i.e. Primus), his MtMtE bio also stats that he is believed to be one of their number, he was specifically tasked by Primus to be guardian of Vector Sigma and Cybertron, He been shown to exist in pretty much every reality we've seen so far, in just about the same basic form.

The only reason why some fans feel he shouldn't be listed among them (or even a possible member) is because his "Shattered Glass" incarnation is at odds with his characterization in the rest of the multiverse. They claim that each is a different Alpha Trion, and thus, because Hasbro confirmed that the 13 are indeed multiversal singularities, Alpha Trion can't be one of them because he is "apparently" a completely different individual in each reality. I disagree with this assessment. My theory on the situation is that, like Primus, he exists simultaneously in each reality and his "avatars" in each took on aspects of each reality, which, would result in variations in his characterization in each reality.

Actually, I think Primacron's name comes from "primitive" or "primeval" or even "primate", as he looks like a monkey and some scientists believe humans evolved from apes, and both apes and monkeys are primates.

Besides, according to the TFWiki, the cartoon episode with Primacron aired before the Primus/Unicron myth was created in the comics. So, Primacron was made in the cartoon years before Primus was made in the comics.

As for The One, due to several similarities, I like the think that The One is God (the Christian God, and other religions that worship the same God differently) put into fiction form.

As for how The One and Primacron would fit together, we were told that Primacron "built" Unicron, right? Perhaps he just built his body. I'd say that Unicron, upon being sealed in an asteroid by Primus (if such happened in the cartoon past like the it did in the comics), he enable Primacron to find the asteroid and reconstruct it into the body he had in the G1 movie. Meaning The One would've first created Unicron and Primus, they'd fight and get trapped in asteroids, and Primacron would've reconstructed Unicron's into his G1 movie body. but that's just my theory.

And as for The Rebirth, I don't really care for it as I prefer The Headmasters over it (as does Japan).

Holy smokes, it's awesome to see that this whole awesome conversation all began with the question of, "Who is The Fallen?"

I don't expect any answer to com from watching Revenge of the Fallen, however, it is awfully fun to speculate!!!

Yes Perceptor, I'd say this has turned intoa very very fun discussion, indeed. The only bad parts of it were those two vulgar attacks at me from ~DESU~. What is that guy's problem?

Except that Primacron is also ultra intelligent. Sure he looked like a space monkey, but he was impossibly smart, just a bit absent-minded. He's also supposed to have existed since before time, just like The One—http://cybertronchronicle.freewebspace.com/cartoon-dossier/transcripts/call_of_the_primitives_act_one-script.html. It also fits with Primacron's Assistant looking like the Matrix. The very fact that the episode in question did occur before Primus was introduced in the comics (in fact, the entire show was already off the air by the time Primus was introduced)actually helps because it looks like whoever wrote the most current iteration of the Primus/Unicron myth may have used some of the elements from the Primacron story into it. Besides, we really don't know what The One looked like.

As for Unicron and Primus being "trapped" in asteroids, some of that seems to have been abandoned as part of the origin story as it evolved.

Aww, man! I liked the asteroid part. It made sense as it gave an origin to Unicron's first transforming body and one of the planet Cybertrons.

But wait, who's to say that Unicron didn't exist before Primacron built his body. He could have. Plus, the cartoon treated him more like a giant robot instead of a god, which Marvel first did.

the only time i remember having a awsome discussion close to this was from the last tf movie all good and clean . very good back and forth with sabrblade and tramp . 2 thumbs up guys .

hhm maby-a-banashed-rerasnsfomer-of-cybrrtion a-new-orgagin-of-terasfomers-iam-going-have-haedackform-this

The cartoon treated him kind of like both. He was impossibly powerful and could only be destroyed by a very mystical object. He certainly wasn't an "ordinary" transformer by any means. However, the actual idea of Unicron being a god hadn't really been thought of until Primus was introduced, which wasn't until after the cartoon had gone off the air, which is unfortunate. It wasn't until Primus was retconned into the cartoon continuity through "Beast Wars", "Beast Machines" and "Wreckers" that a lot of the plot holes dealing with Unicron, the Matrix, the Transformers origins, and the Quints really began to make any sense.

As for Primacron, once again, he existed since the beginning of the Universe, the beginning of time. He's the most ancient being ever seen in the cartoon. Add to that, the nearly synonymous nature of his name to The One, and his having created Unicron and his own Assisitant (which—according to Japanese continuity anyway—turns out to be Primus, and whose "shell" bears a striking resemblance to the Matrix), it makes sense that Primacron and The One would be one and the same.

Actually, it was just The Wreckers that retconned in Primus to the cartoon. Beast Wars and Beast Machines were pretty vague on the matter at the time. Beats Wars would make passing mentions of Primus, while Beast Machines was more focused on The Oracle.

Remember, Beast Wars isn't exactly the future of just the G1 cartoon. All other G1 media (Marvel Comics, Dreamwave comics, and IDW Comics) seem to fit into Beast Wars' past as well. Plus, in Beast Wars, the Great Wars of G1 was treated more like Arthurian legend to the Mximals and Predacons. While we do know that "A" G1 is its past, it is not specified which.

And if you want to go by what the Japanese believe, to them, the Matrix's energy is not only wisdom, by just pure energy itself. They actually even had the Matrix hooked up inside a power plant to recharge it via "Earth's natural energy". To the Japanese, the Matrix of Leadership in the cartoon is hardly mystical, compared to the U.S. portrayal of said object.

As for the Japanese making Primacron's Assistant = Primus, you have Kiss Players to thank for that, and do you really WANT to go by that awful fiction?

Beast Wars is most assuredly part of the G1 cartoon universe. Even the official TF timeline of the Multiverse confirms this: http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/1/1d/Continuities.png The black arrows show direct continuity, grey arrows show indirect continuity. Beast Wars heavily drew upon the cartoon and made multiple direct connections to it including the arrival of Starscream's ghost, something which only occured in the cartoon continuity. The G1 cartoon is directly linked to Beast Wars in continuity. As for Primus, Beast Wars was the first mention of Primus in cartoon continuity, hence it actually established that initial retcon of Primus in the G1 cartoon continuity. Yes, they were primarily "passing refferences", but they did initially establish the retcon. Beast Macchines introduction of the Oracle, and The Allspark (which would eventually be established as Primus' Spark), built upon the existing fiction and added mor elayers to it. Wreckers#3 simply reconciled the two conflicting origin stories, and explianed how it all fit together—Primus and Unicron, the Quints, Vector Sigma, the Oracle, etc. All of the questions were answered, all of the pieces established in the previous shows put together and explained.

Dreamwave was also based mostly on G1 cartoon and toy continuities, not Marvel, and worked to tie into the Beast Wars. But the show was written as a direct continuation of the old G1 cartoon. So yes, Beast Wars is indeed the future of the G1 cartoon continuity. IDW ran their BW story as completely separate from their ongoing "G1" story line. There's no connection between them.

Iv ust got back from actually seeing the film, and DAMN! No spoilers, but i think you will both be pleasantly suprised by how it's played out...

>>"Even the official TF timeline of the Multiverse confirms this: http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/1/1d/Continuities.png"

You do know that that chart is both fanmade and outdated (even though it appeared in an official magazine, the discussion page still says that it's speculation).

Also, there are some contradictions between the G1 cartoon and the Beast Era shows. For example, we saw in G1 episode 1 that the Ark and Nemesis crash due to the Earth's G-forces and everybody was onboard the Ark fighting, with no one at the contraols of either ship. Yet Beast wArs claims that the two ships shot at each other in space and crashed due to both being shot down by each other, with zero signs of the Decepticons in the Nemesis boarding the Ark.

And since you seem to like the Japanese continuity so much (I do too! :D), here's something that is in total contradiction. Beast Machines showed several things from Cybertron's past (Vector Sigma, the Plasms Energy Chamber, Iacon, etc.) to be intact. Yet, in the Headmasters cartoon, Cybertron was completely blown up, leaving nothing but barren, uninhabitable piece of its outer shell.
http://randomhoohaas.flyingomelette.com/Cartoons/TransformersHeadmasters-PlanetCybertronIsInGraveDanger2/42.JPG
Assuming the planet was rebuilt, how could all that inner-planet stuff be back after the bombs went off right next to Vector Sigma (and we know that Vector Sigma is hidden pretty deep inside Cybertron)?

Not to mention the Vok were said to be evolved from the Swarm, which only appeared in the Marvel G2 comic.

Actually, that chart was not fan made. It was officially published, thus fully sanctioned by Hasbro. Thus, it's not "fan" material. IT's canon. And, the only thing that makes it "out dated" is that it doesn't yet have newer information about the movies or Animated. the existing information it has is still valid. On top of that, it was one individual's opinion that the chart was speculation, and "It's Walky" proved him wrong. It was the centerpiece of a whole collection of articles in the OTFCC magazine. Thus, it needed to be accurate.

Secondly, the two ships did fire upon, and severely damage one another before the Decepticons boarded the Ark. Also, if you look at the chart, Japanese continuity is a direct branch of US continuity that diverges from it and then re-converges back at Beast Wars. Marvel continuity has only an indirect connection. As for the Vok, they're capable of inter-dimensional travel. Thus, they could travel between realities as well as through time. That's your connection to Marvel G2. It's completely indirect. As for how those various "inner planet stuff" survive, that's simple, none of them were directly adjacent to Vector Sigma, but rather scattered around the planet. Not only that, but the planet wasn't completely destroyed, only half of it was, and that was indeed eventually restored. Vector Sigma was the only thing "destroyed", but, since that is a direct extension of Primus, it would naturally be restored along with the planet.

But that does bring up the question as to HOW the planet was restored. How to you restore a planet? Particularly one that is is partially organic. I can understand how the technological parts of the planet could be rebuilt, but what about the organic parts? Zodiac, maybe?

BTW, just saw the movie and guess what the All Spark's energy is? Energon! That's it?!! Way to demean the mystical aspect of the cube, writers!

And what up with there being only 7 Primes instead of 13? Sure more could've existed, but they were completely ignored if they did.

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i wish i had the fallen toy & the constructicons mainly i wish i had all the movie series toys even an army of autobot & decepticon drones like payloads,dreadwings,swindles,camshafts,salvages,
longarms,scrappers & mixmasters.i guess i will have to keep searching for coins on the ground to get enough money to get all the movie seires toys i only have $9:65 but if i keep money hunting i'll get there.

i just wish the dinobots where in the 3 movie all of the 5

remember me from months

goto www.the story of unicron.com it says he will be in the 3rd movie of transformers his creaters name is primacron go to google to see pictures

The Fallen is a wanna be Quinteson the quintisson were the ones who made Transformers

the fallen voyager sucks i know a new fallen toy thats leader sized. coooool

tankor from universe is realy cool you have to buy him. there is a secret tankor's sholders ar horrible. you go to youtube and typ:tankor tips.

heý tf fans.
movie one legend combine you need:legent megatron/bumblebee/bonecrucher/ratchet/jazz/bariccade-to see the combine go to youtube and type:tf legent combine.
BYE

there are 7 prime's
megatron is a prime the fallen is a prime optimus ia a prime and more

ove the fallen here you kan juse him for more power

If Unicron appears in the third movie he should be a demonic looking machine because Unicron is like the devil and he is the ultimate evil and for transformers 3 you know what would be nice the fallen returns from the dead but i know optimus defeated him by ripping his face off and punching a hole right through him and crushed his spark but if unicron appears in the third film he would resurrect the fallen by recreating his spark and repairing his body and make him stronger than ever which would be awesome.

rodimus should come i mean hes the best he should become the new leader of the autobts like in the original movie

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